Mother, what place will occultism have in the supramental life?
Why particularly occultism?
Because everything will be known, won’t it?
Why occultism? There is a place for everything in the supramental life.
Does this interest you specially?
According to what we know about occultism, it is the science which shows us things that are invisible to us, the invisible world, the invisible forces.… But in the supramental world all this will be known.
What do you understand by occultism?
The knowledge of the invisible world and invisible forces.
And so—I don’t quite understand. In the supermind one will no longer have any knowledge, or what?
One will have the knowledge already, so…
Already.… But then it will be an occult knowledge! I don’t quite understand. Occultism is a special way of dealing with things. In The Life Divine Sri Aurobindo has explained this in great detail. It is a special approach to knowledge and action, and there is no reason why it should disappear or why.…
186It will become the natural consciousness. Then perhaps one won’t need to learn this occult knowledge.
Oh, you think one learns occultism as one learns to play the piano! [Laughter] But it is not quite like that, anyway, that things happen. In fact, those who have no special aptitude could read all the books on occultism in the world and never know how to practise it. It needs a special capacity.
It is true that you may also read all the books in the world on how to play the piano—if you do not play, you will never know how to play. But there are born musicians, born artists, and there are people who may work at it all their lives and never come to anything at all. It is the same thing with occultism. If you mean that when one becomes a supramental being, one will have the gift of doing everything, very well, but that doesn’t imply that the gift is spontaneous. It is possible that you might have to concentrate on the subject and then learn your work. And it is also possible that one may be potentially capable of doing everything but it is not necessary that one has to do everything! There will be differences and classifications all the same, and special functions according to people and their individual tastes. I don’t see why you should deprive the supramental world particularly of occult activity more than of any other.
How do you conceive of the supramental life? As a paradise in which everyone will do the same thing in the same way?… The old conception of paradise where everybody became an angel playing the harp? It is not quite like that! All the differences will be there, all differentiations and different activities, but instead of acting in the ordinary human ignorance, one will act with knowledge, that’s all; that is what will make the difference.
And the capacities will also increase, won’t they?
Capacities?… You take occultism in the sense of the power to 187 act on life and things, as a process; but that is not occultism, that is magic.
Occultism is a special use of the consciousness, that’s all. That is, at the moment, as it is practised by human beings, it is a direct and conscious perception of the forces behind appearances and the play of these forces, and because one has the direct perception of them, one has the power to act on them, and one makes some higher will intervene in the play of these forces in order to obtain a required result.
In the supramental world one will have these powers spontaneously.
Spontaneously!… But everybody practises occultism without knowing that he does. Everybody has this power spontaneously but doesn’t know he has it. It may be a very slight one, like a pin-head; it may be as vast as the Earth or even the universe. But you cannot live without practising occultism, only you don’t know it. So the only difference you can make is that when one has the supramental consciousness one will know it. That is all. So, your question automatically vanishes.
When you think—I have explained this to you I don’t know how many times—when you think, you are practising occultism. Only, you don’t know it. When you are thinking of someone, some part of you is automatically in contact with this person, and if to your thought is added a will that this person may be like this or like that or do this or that or understand this or that—whatever it may be—well, you are practising occultism, only you don’t know it.… There are people who do this with power, and when they have a strong thought it manifests and is realised. There are people in whom it is very feeble and they do not obtain many results. It depends on the power of your thought and also on your power of concentration. But this kind of occultism everybody practises without even knowing it. So the difference from someone who really practises 188occultism is that he knows he is doing it and perhaps how he does it.
But as you have spoken to us so often of Mr. X who was a great occultist, I thought that in the supramental world it would be something natural. All would be as capable as he.
But why this in particular? That is what I don’t understand! Why particularly occultism?
Because I thought that all knowledge of the invisible world entered the sphere of occultism.
Yes.
So, now, in ordinary life man is unconscious, half conscious; but in the full consciousness he would also have the full consciousness of occultism.
No, this is all very well, but do you believe that in the supramental life there will no longer be any classification of activities, or what? That everything will be mixed up in a general spontaneous capacity?
No, there will also be a hierarchy.
There will always be different ways of dealing with things. Perhaps the occult power will be more common, but if you imagine a world where everyone has equally the same occult power, there will no longer be any difference. You understand? There are people who have the occult power and act on those who haven’t, but if everyone has it equally it will no longer be occultism!… Is that what you meant?
189Yes.
Ah!… Well, I am convinced that even in the most perfect supramental realisation there will always be a differentiation between the capacities and functions of each one; but instead of being or not being in one’s right place, of doing or not doing what one ought to do, unconsciously, one will be in one’s right place—I hope always in one’s place—and will always do what one ought to do, consciously. That is, instead of always trying to know and groping in the dark, one will know what one ought to do and do it well. But that is the whole difference. Differentiations will be there, each one will have his own role, his own place, each one will have his own activity. Don’t think that everybody will begin to look alike and do the same thing in the same way! That would be a terrible world.
We could say that the difference between the supramental world and our present world will be this: what you don’t know, you will know, what you can’t do, you will be able to do, and what you don’t understand, you will understand, and of what you are unconscious, you will become conscious. But fundamentally this is the basis of the new creation: to replace ignorance by knowledge and unconsciousness by consciousness, and weakness by strength. But this does not necessarily mean that everything is going to be so mixed up that it is scarcely recognisable!
[Long silence]
Sri Aurobindo has told us that in the Supermind itself there are different planes of realisation and that these planes will manifest successively, with the same progressive movement that has always presided over the universal development. And simply because, till today, it is a world that is closed to the greater part of mankind or hardly half-open to some, it is difficult to conceive of this progress in the supramental life, but it will exist; 190and the moment there is progress, there is ascension, and there is a perfection which develops according to a law of its own, which is gradually unveiled to the consciousness—even to a fully illumined consciousness—and works in the truth instead of working in ignorance.… This somethingfnWhen this talk was first published, Mother defined this ‘something’: “The unmanifest which will use the supramental world to manifest itself.” which is not there completely, totally, all at once—it could almost be said massively—in the Manifestation but is progressive, will follow the same law of development as that of the world we live in now, but instead of not knowing where we are going, well, we shall know the way and follow it consciously. Instead of standing there imagining or guessing or speculating about what ought to be, we shall see where we are going and know how to go there. That will be the essential difference. Certainly it will not be a dull existence in which everything goes on indefinitely without changing.
I believe there is always a tendency in the human consciousness to want to get somewhere, to sit down and feel it is at last all over: “We have arrived, we settle down and don’t move any more!” That would be a poor type of Supermind.
But this ascending, progressive movement towards a growing perfection will be still more prominent, certainly, and instead of unfolding itself in the darkness where everybody is blind and gropes along, it will unfold in the light and one will have the joy of knowing where one is going and what one is doing. That’s all.
So one must not come and ask, “Will this be there?” or “Won’t that be there?” There will be many more things still than we have now. Every possible thing will be there.