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13 December 1969

I am receiving continuously, almost daily, the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo, which I had forgotten completely. There were very interesting things.… Some of them give me the feeling that they are a kind of transcription (one might say “intellectual”, but it is not that, it is a mentalised higher mind, that is to say, it is accessible to thought) of the experience of the supramental consciousness that I had, in which this difference of good and evil and all that, appears as childishness, and Sri Aurobindo expresses it in the aphorisms in a way accessible to the intellect. Only… those who understand do not understand well! because they understand in the old way.

Do you remember these aphorisms?… There is one where he says: “If I cannot be Rama, then I would be Ravana… ” and he explains why. It is in that series.fn“Men talk of enemies, but where are they? I only see wrestlers of one party or the other in the great arena of the universe.
“The saint and the angel are not the only divinities; admire also the Titan and the Giant.
“The old writings call the Titans the elder gods. So they still are, nor is any god entirely divine unless there is hidden in him also a Titan.
“If I cannot be Rama, then I would be Ravana; for he is the dark side of Vishnu.”
Thoughts and Aphorisms, Cent. Vol. 17, pp. 106-07


There is a practical problem there: it is clear there are some movements which one would like to eliminate, because one finds that it is a fault, but one does not know how to do it. Is it from above? You put the light upon such a movement each time it comes up, and then…

It depends upon the kind of movement, my child, and in which part of the being and what type of movement.


I am sure that each difficulty is a special problem. You can’t make a general rule.

For example, the other day you said that birth is a “purge”… [Mother laughs]. You remember: people who have suppressed everything, find the same thing reappearing in the children.fn“For the vast majority of those who bring forth children almost without wanting it, ‘like that’, and who have had an education, that is to say, who have had their brains crammed with ideas of certain defects one should not have and of qualities one should have—all that had been driven down into their being, all the vicious instincts, all come up. I have observed and I have seen and I remember some things I read very very long ago—I suppose it was in Renan: he wrote that one must distrust parents who were good and very respectable, because [Mother laughs] birth is a ‘purge’! And he had said also: observe carefully the children of bad people, because they are often a reaction! And after my experience, when I had seen, I said to myself: ‘But this man was quite right! It is a way for men to purge themselves. They throw out of themselves all that they do not want’.… And it is very interesting, because that gives the key to what one has to do. Showing to you what is not to be done, it gives you the key to the thing that is to be done.”

Yes, yes!

And you said that this gave a key to what should not be done.


Now I would like to know what is the key to cure without suppression? Precisely because the Light is usually thrown, and then the wrong movement is driven underground.

Yes, that is a general rule. The opposite is to be done: instead of driving it underground, it is to be offered. It is to place the thing, the movement itself, to project it into the light.… Generally it wriggles and refuses! But [Mother laughs] that is the only way. That is why this Consciousness is so precious.… Well, what 212brings about the suppression is the idea of good and bad, a kind of contempt or shame for what is considered bad, and you do like this [gesture of repulsion], you do not want to see it, you do not want it to be there. It must… The first thing—the very first thing to realise is that it is the weakness of our consciousness that makes this division and that there is a Consciousness (now I am sure of it) in which that does not exist, in which what we call “evil” is as much necessary as what we call “good”, and that if we can project our sensation—or our activity or our perception—into that Light, that will bring the cure.fnAt the time of publishing this talk, Mother added the following comment: “In this Consciousness where the two contraries, the two opposites are joined together, both change their nature, they do not continue to be what they are. They are not simply joined and remain the same: their nature changes and that is of great importance. Their nature, their action, their vibration become wholly different as soon as they are joined together. It is the separation that makes them what they are. Do away with the separation and their very nature changes. It is no longer good or bad, but something else, something that is whole and entire.” Instead of suppressing or rejecting it as something to be destroyed (it cannot be destroyed!), it has to be projected into the Light. And because of this I have had for several days a very interesting experience: instead of seeking to throw away far from oneself certain things (which one does not accept, and which produce an imbalance in the being), instead of doing that, to accept them, take them as part of oneself and… [Mother opens her hands] offer them up. They do not want to be offered, but there is a way of compelling them: the resistance is diminished in the proportion as we can diminish in us our sense of disapprobation; if we can replace this sense of disapprobation by a higher understanding, then we succeed. It is much more easy.

I believe it is that. All, all the movements that drag you down must be put in contact with the higher understanding.

Only, it is beyond the mind obviously. Because, as I said presently that the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo were expressions understandable to the intellect—but all the same that 213diminishes: it diminishes, it has no longer the dazzle of understanding without words—it is there, there alone that things can be arranged.

Even when it is explained to oneself, it diminishes. One must say nothing. It is like [Mother laughs] putting on a layer of paint that only distorts.

Mother suddenly takes up a notebook nearby and writes her answer to a letter that she had read at the beginning of the interview.

It came that way. It is in that way it happens: all of a sudden, and then it remains and does not want to go away until I write it down. It is amusing.

It is amusing, because it does not correspond (I cannot even say what I am thinking of, because to say the truth, I think no more) to my experience, but to what the other has need of. The answer is dictated for the other. The words, the expressions, the turn of phrase, the presentation differ completely according to the person to whom it is written. And that consciousness which is there [gesture upward] has nothing to do with it. It receives. It receives and then it comes down and it does like this [gesture of hammering] until I write it down! It does not want to go away until it is written. It is very amusing.… In that way one can work hard without tiring oneself! [Mother laughs.]

I would like very much to have just a seed.

Take it! [Mother, laughing, gives her hands.]

Because, even in mental silence—I am always in the habit of writing in mental silence—but in spite of everything, even in this silence I am on guard lest the old formations or reactions come in and express themselves in the silence.

Ah, yes.

I am afraid of that.

Yes, old things come up.

But do you not feel they are coming from above?

I feel the Force is there and it comes down.

Yes, and then?

Well, yes, but afterwards, when I write certain things, I say to myself…

Ah! That happens often.

I say to myself: “Perhaps I should not have said that.”

But then it is the mind that interferes.

I do not know.

That happens to me also. Sometimes I write and then send it off, and afterwards I remember what I had written, and I tell myself: “The devil! I should not have said that!”… And I find out that it was all right—that it is the reaction which is a mental reaction.

That has happened to me many a time. For example the other day, I had to write to Z. Very often he writes unacceptable things, but I say nothing; and the other day I wrote to him a rather strong letter asking him: “What does that mean?” And afterwards I said to myself, “No, I must not move,” and I did not send the letter.… What should be done, I do not know?

That, my child…



It is difficult.

Yes.… But when you turn upward or you aspire or you are like this, open to the supreme Consciousness, it is concrete?

Ah, yes, it is solid.

It is concrete? One must… You understand, there is only one way, the ego must go, that is all. It is that. Only when, there, instead of “I” there is nothing any more: you know, it is altogether flat like this [gesture signifying something immense, smooth, without a wrinkle], having a kind of… it is not even expressed by words, but a very stable sensation of: “What Thou willest, as Thou willest” (the words become too small). Indeed, to have a concrete sensation that this [the body], this does not exist, it is only used—there is only That. It is That which does like this [gesture of pressure]. This feeling of That, this conscious Vastness which [Mother stretches her arms].… In the end you do see it (“seeing”, it is not a vision with images but it is a vision… I do not know with what! but it is very concrete, much more concrete than the images), a vision of this vast Force, this vast Vibration which presses, presses, presses… and then the world which wriggles under it and the thing which opens, and when it opens, that enters and spreads.

This is truly interesting.

This is the only solution. There is no other. All the rest, it is aspirations, conceptions, expectations… it is still the superman, it is not the supramental. It is a higher humanity which tries to draw the whole of its humanity upward, but that… that is of no use, of no use.

The picture is very clear, of this whole humanity which clings in order to climb, which seeks to hold like that, but which does 216not give itself—it wants to take! And that, that will not do. It must do away with itself. Then the Thing will be able to come and take its place.

The whole secret is there.

For example, all this side of humanity that wants to take things by force and pulls them up there [gesture indicating as high as the forehead]… it is interesting: it is interesting, but it is not that! It is not that; all these possibilities must be exhausted so that something in humanity is able to understand… that there is only that [Mother opens her hands in a gesture of self-effacement], and then to let oneself lie prostrate till one disappears.

Indeed, that is the most difficult thing: to learn to disappear.


Well, my child [Mother laughs], we shall get there!