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21 December 1968

A question has been put. I translate it: “While describing her experiences of last August and September, the Mother spoke of the exclusion of the mind and the vital. Why must they be eliminated for a rapid and effective transformation of the body? Does not the supramental consciousness act upon them also?”

Certainly it acts, it has already acted for a long time. It is because the body is accustomed—was accustomed—to obeying the vital and particularly the mind, and therefore this was in order to change its habit, so that it would obey only the higher consciousness. It is for that, so that the thing would go faster. In people it is through the mind and the vital that That acts, but I have said it was also more sure. As an experience this is rather risky. But it increases the tempo considerably, for normally one has to act upon the body through the other two, whereas in this way, when the two are not there, That acts directly. That’s all.

The procedure is not recommended! Each time the occasion arises, I repeat it; people should not imagine that they should try it (they would not be able to do so, but that does not matter), it is not recommended. One must take the necessary time. It was only because of the mounting years… so that it would go quicker.


What is curious is that there are, as it were, demonstrations of the natural tendency of the body (I suppose it is not the same for all bodies: it depends upon how the body has been built, that is to say, father, mother, antecedents, etc.) a demonstration of the body left to itself. For example, this one has a kind of imagination (it is something queer), a dramatic imagination: all the time 144it has the feeling that it is living through catastrophes; and then, with the faith it always has, the catastrophe is transformed into a realisation—absurd things like that. So for a time, it is left to this imagination (this is what has happened these days) and when it is completely tired of this stupid activity, it prays, yes, with all its intensity, so that the thing may stop. Immediately, just that, hop! it does this [gesture], it turns around straightaway and goes into a contemplation—not distant, but quite close—of this wonderful Presence that is everywhere.

It is like this, like this [Mother quickly turns two fingers], it does not take time, there is no preparation or anything; it is hop! hop! in this way [same gesture], as though to show the stupidity of the body. It is something altogether idiotic, like a demonstration through evidence of the stupidity of the body left to itself, and then of this wonderful Consciousness that comes, in which all that vanishes… like something which has no consistency, no reality, and which vanishes. And like a proof that it is not merely in the imagination, but that it is in the fact: proof of the power so that all this… vain dream of life as it is (which has become for the consciousness of this body something so frightful) can be changed into a wonder, like this, simply by the reversal of the consciousness.

The experience is repeated in all the details, in all the domains, as a demonstration through fact. And it is not a “long process” of transformation, it is as though something is reversed all of a sudden [Mother turns two fingers], and instead of seeing ugliness, falsehood, suffering and all that, suddenly it lives in bliss. And all the things are the same, nothing has moved, except the consciousness.

And so there remains (it is what lies in front, what is probably coming): how is the experience to be translated materially?… For the body itself, it is quite evident: during, say, one hour, or two or three, it suffered much, it was quite miserable (not a moral suffering, an altogether physical suffering), and then all of a sudden, brrff! all gone!… The body apparently has 145remained the same [Mother looks at her hands] in its appearance, but in place of an inner disorder which makes it suffer, everything is going well and there is a great peace, a great calm, and everything is going well. But this, it is for one body—how does it act upon others? It begins to notice the possibility in other consciousnesses. From the moral point of view (that is to say, in respect to attitudes and character and reactions), it is quite visible; even from the physical point of view sometimes: all of a sudden something disappears—as we had the experience when Sri Aurobindo removed a pain [gesture as if a hand comes and takes away the pain]: one wondered… “Ah! gone, vanished, like that.” But it is not constant, not general, it is only to show that it can be so, by the fact that it is so in one case or another, to show that it can be like that.

One might say it in this way: the body has the feeling that it is imprisoned within something—yes, imprisoned—imprisoned as though in a box, but it sees through; it sees and it can also act (in a limited way) through something which is still there and which must disappear. This “something” gives the feeling of an imprisonment. How is it to disappear? That I do not know yet.

One has to find the relation between the consciousness in one body and the consciousness of all. And to what extent there is dependence and to what extent there is independence, that is to say, up to what point the body can be transformed in its consciousness (and as a result, necessarily, in its appearance) without… without the transformation of all—up to what point? And to what extent the transformation of all is necessary for the transformation of one body. This remains to be discovered.


If one were to tell everything, it would take hours.…

But this “box” you spoke of, it is a universal box…


I have often had the feeling that all these so-called human laws or “natural” laws are merely an immense morbid imagination collectively fixed—that is the box.

Yes, exactly so, exactly so.

Then, how…

Yes, to what extent can an individual light act upon that?… There is the problem.… I do not know.


The vision is very clear, of the collective progress (our field of experience is the earth) that has taken place upon earth; but considering the past, it would seem that a formidable time is still needed for all to be ready to change.… And yet, it is almost a promise that… there is going to be a sudden change (which is translated in our consciousness as a “descent”, an action that “happens”, something that was not acting till now and which has begun to act—in our consciousness, it is translated in that way).

We shall see.

For the body itself, there is a growing experience, that is to say, a more and more precise experience at the same time of its fragility (extreme fragility: just a little movement could stop the present existence), and at the same time, at the same time, simultaneously, the sense of an eternity!—that there is an eternal existence. The two at the same time.

It is truly a period of transition!


Once or twice, when the body’s… what one might call its agony 147to know, was very intense, when it had the full sense of the Presence, this sense of the Presence everywhere, inside, everywhere [Mother touches her face, her hands], it asked how (not even why, it had no such curiosity), how could there be the present disorder? Well, when it was very intense, very intense, once or twice it had the feeling: once this is found out, it is immortality. Then it begins thus to push, to push in order to catch the secret, it has the feeling that it is going to be found.… And then there is a kind of lull in the aspiration: “Peace, peace, peace… ” Yes, once or twice the impression: “Oh! It is about to be understood” (“understood”, that is to say, lived; it is not “understood” with the thought: lived) and then… [gesture of escape]. And a Peace which comes down.

But the feeling: it will be tomorrow. But tomorrow, which tomorrow? Not tomorrow according to our measure.

We shall see.

But the experiences are innumerable, with all the aspects. It would take hours and still one always has the feeling that the word, well, falsifies something. It is no longer so simple, no longer so beautiful, and no longer so clear. It becomes complicated.

The body has absolutely wonderful moments; it has hours of agony. And all of a sudden, a wonderful moment. But that moment cannot be explained.… If one is to judge the degree of growth by the proportion of time, well… the wonderful moment lasts a few minutes, and there are hours of agony. There are even hours of suffering. And then if one judged the proportion accordingly, it is still very, very, very, extremely far away.…

But what is to be done? One has to go on, that is all.