“Q: Do our thoughts (good and bad) about others affect them in any way?
“A: Yes, there is an influence.
“Q: Is it possible that the desires, doubts, etc. of one person can pass on to another?
“A: Anything can pass from one to another. It is happening all the time throughout the world.”
Who has a question?
Sweet Mother, why doesn’t one receive the Divine as one receives other things?
What do you understand by “other things”?
The question has not been put very well. Do you mean…
Here what is spoken about are the influences which pass from one person to another—is that what you mean? Why doesn’t one receive the Divine as easily as, say, one receives a neighbour’s ill-will? Is that it?
Because it is not on the same plane. The neighbour’s ill-will or goodwill are on the same plane, whereas the Divine belongs to another world. That’s the reason why. If you want an image: all that is on a horizontal plane in relation to you is very easily received, but all that comes from a vertical direction is much more difficult. First one must look up above, within oneself, and then open oneself so that it descends; while in the other way… one moves like that all the time. Don’t understand?
And unfortunately, it is much easier to slide down, to fall than to climb up. It is much easier to respond to an influence 169which drags you down than to a force that pulls you up. Is it not more easy to go down than to climb up? If you are at a certain place and have to climb a rock, it is much more difficult than if you let yourself slide in order to go down below. Isn’t that so?
Sweet Mother, when one realises the Divine, does one no longer have enemies?
Ah, indeed! Why? I believe it is rather just the opposite.
Yes, surely. The earth is full of adverse forces and of men who respond to these adverse forces; usually, the more one realises the Divine, the more enemies does he have around himself.
Do they act against the Divine?
Oh, yes! At least they try. I don’t know if they succeed, but they try. They try, they have always tried.
Why? The Divine hasn’t done anyone any harm!
[Laughing] You think one acts against others only when they have done some harm? Usually it is just the contrary. Can you tell me why the strong use their strength against the weak? It is not that the weak have harmed them, but simply because they have the strength and wish to use it for their own ends and want to compel the weak to obey their force, so they beat them; when they have a chance, they ill-treat them. It is not because the weak have made mistakes; it is because they want to use their strength for their own purposes, for the satisfaction of their desires.
Suppose, for instance, that there are forces in the universe which are accustomed to govern, as there are certain asuric forces governing the earth. They do not want to lose their authority. So all who put out a force which could compel them to 170withdraw, they attack with as much strength as they have. They do this to keep their power. But it is not because these people… in fact, you understand, it is not that they are wicked or bad. It is because the light and power they represent are completely opposed to the power represented by the other forces.
Mother, it is said that something of the Divine is there even in the Asuras.
Naturally!
Then, when the Divine fights the Asura, what does the Divine in the Asura do?
He goes back into the Divine. But you know the story? He is re-absorbed by the Divine, as in the Ramayana; that story is quite true in this sense.
If the Divine were to withdraw from the Asura, the Asura would dissolve, wouldn’t he?—the Divine who is in the Asura?
I know people who have rejected their psychic being and who still continue to live; and yet, logically it would seem that a human being without a psychic being would die, still they continue to live. And perhaps it would be necessary in order finally to dissolve these asuric forces in the world—perhaps it would be necessary for the Divine to withdraw his whole creation into himself, because these are at the very origin of the creation.
Then the transformation cannot come about unless the Divine withdraws into the Divine?
That, why, that is Pralaya! It is not transformation, it is the dissolution of the earth. It is said that there were six creations, 171that is, six exteriorisations of the universe, and that six times the universe went back—it is recounted in the scriptures, you know—went back into the Divine. But it is said that this is the end. It is evidently one ending, but it is not the completion. It is because the creation lacked something and it was necessary to withdraw it and remake it. And it is said that our present creation is the seventh, and being the seventh it is the real one, that is, it is the final one, and it will not be withdrawn again, that it will continue to be transformed and become more and more perfect, so as not to have to be withdrawn.
How far is what is said true?
We shall see!
But the last six times, is that what happened?
The first six, yes, it is true. Even the order is given, the order in which… Because each creation is built on certain attributes, and the order of these attributes is given. I know them, I have written them somewhere. But I don’t have it with me. So I can’t give it to you, I would make a mistake. But one day I could bring you the paper on which it is written. All that I know is that this time it is the creation based on equilibrium. But a special equilibrium, for it is a progressive equilibrium. It is not a static equilibrium. The attribute of the present creation is equilibrium; that is why it is said that in this creation, if each thing is exactly in its place, in a perfect balance, well, there is no more evil. What is evil?—it is things not in equilibrium! There is nothing that is bad in itself, it is only the position which is wrong, which is not the true position.
Then what is the position of the Asuras?
To be taken back into the Divine. There were four great Asuras. 172Out of the four, two are converted. They are taking part in the divine work. The other two are holding out well. How long will they hold out? We shall see. So, they have the choice between being converted, that is, taking their place, poised, in the whole totality or else being dissolved, that is, being reabsorbed into their Origin.
There is one of them who has almost attempted conversion and not succeeded. When it had to be done, it seemed to him quite unpleasant. So he has put it off till another time.
As for the other, he refuses to try. He has taken up a very, very important position in the world, because people who don’t know things call him “Lord of the Nations”. In fact, I was speaking a while ago about the forces which govern the world and don’t want to give up their rule at all. They are perfectly satisfied with it—it is not that he does not know that his end will come one day, but still he always postpones it as long as he can.
But as they do not have human dimensions, it can go on for quite a long time, can’t it? As long as they find somewhere upon earth a human consciousness ready to respond to their influence, they will remain. So you can imagine the problem! Now it is not through individuals, it is through nations that they exert their influence.
Which are the two forces that are already converted?
Do you know the four Asuras?
No. I don’t know them.
Do you know what the origin of these four Asuras is? [To another child] Who knows this?
You had once told us in class.
Yes, surely; that’s just why I am asking you about it, to find out if you remember the things I tell you!
You said there were four divine forces: Love, Light, Truth and the opposite of Death.
And what?
[Another child, laughing] Life!
Ah!
Then these four forces separated from the Divine and changed into falsehood…
Yes, it is something like that! It is something like that!
Light or Consciousness, Ananda or Love, Life and Truth.
Then Light or Consciousness became Darkness and Inconscience. Love and Ananda became Hatred and Suffering, and Truth became Falsehood, and Life became Death. Well, it is the first two… but not exactly in the same conditions. The first is converted and works, but he has refused to take a human body, he says it is a limitation in his work; perhaps one day he will take one, but for the time being he refuses. The second is converted and has of his own will been dissolved. He has dissolved into his origin. And the last two are holding out well.
The one of Death tried to incarnate. But he could not get converted. He tried to incarnate, which is something very rare. But it was a partial, not a total incarnation. That is difficult for them, a total incarnation. Human bodies are quite small, human consciousnesses are too small.
As for the other, he has emanations which are very active in certain human bodies and have played a big role in the recent history of the earth!
174Don’t the Asuras quarrel among themselves?
Oh yes, oh yes! Just like men who are under asuric influences. They are the worst enemies among themselves. We must say it is a blessing, for if they had an understanding, things would be much more difficult. Perhaps it is so just because it is a law of equilibrium that governs the world. It is in order to lessen the strength of their influence. But still…
That Lord of Falsehood has truly a lot of influence. This is what catches you with a contagion as strong as that of contagious diseases. Stronger still!
Sweet Mother, did not Falsehood try to incarnate?
He sent emanations upon earth but I don’t think that was with the purpose of conversion. Anyway, he did not succeed in it.
But why is man a centre of attraction for the adverse forces? He is so limited!
Yes. Also they do not usually work upon one man. But they try to get hold of the earth-atmosphere, you understand, and without getting hold of men, they can’t get hold of the earth-atmosphere, because it is in man that the highest terrestrial force manifests. As for taking a human body for conversion, that indeed is quite… the answer is quite simple. It is because in man there is a psychic being and there is no Asura who can eternally resist the influence of the psychic being, even were he to refuse as much as he could to surrender and bind himself closely. That’s exactly the contradiction of their existence.
Sweet Mother, Sri Aurobindo has said that one can pass from human love to divine Love.
He was speaking of human love manifesting as Bhakti, as a 175force of devotion for the Divine, and he says that at the beginning your love for the Divine is a very human love with all the characteristics of human love. He describes this very well, besides. Yet if you persist and make the necessary effort, it is not impossible for this human love to be transformed into divine love through identification with what you love. He has not said that the love between two persons can change into divine love. It is not that at all! He has always said the opposite. He spoke about someone who had asked him about devotion, you know, about the sadhak’s love for the Divine. At the beginning your love is altogether human—and he speaks of it even as commercial barter. If you make progress, your love will change into divine love, into true devotion.
Why do we sometimes have a special preference for a certain chapter, for instance, the one on sincerity or aspiration?
You mean the desire to read it? Because one probably needs what is in it! If you have an attraction for something, usually it is that you need to read it, and it is exactly the thing you need to understand which comes to you. You can use this even with an altogether material method which I have often given you. See, you concentrate—if you have a difficulty or want to be helped, you concentrate and then insert a marker in a book and you alight upon the thing which is the answer to what you have asked. That is the most material means; but if the mind is well disposed, then, quite naturally, when it reads the titles, it will say, “Oh, this is what I want to read”, without even knowing what is within, because it will feel that this is what has to be read to answer its question or its need.
Some people have this power even without having tried to make any progress, and somebody will always come along to give them a book and tell them, without even knowing why, “Here, read this book, it will interest you”; or else they will 176enter a house and see a book lying on the table—it is just the one thing they will want to read. It depends a great deal on the intensity of the inner aspiration. If you are in a state of conscious aspiration and very sincere, well, everything around you will be arranged in order to help in your aspiration, whether directly or indirectly, that is, either to make you progress, put you in touch with something new or to eliminate from your nature something that has to disappear. This is something quite remarkable. If you are truly in a state of intensity of aspiration, there is not a circumstance which does not come to help you to realise this aspiration. Everything comes, everything, as though there were a perfect and absolute consciousness organising around you all things, and you yourself in your outer ignorance may not recognise it and may protest at first against the circumstances as they show themselves, may complain, may try to change them; but after a while, when you have become wiser, and there is a certain distance between you and the event, well, you will realise that it was just what you needed to do to make the necessary progress. And, you know, it is a will, a supreme goodwill which arranges all things around you, and even when you complain and protest instead of accepting, it is exactly at such moments that it acts most effectively.
I have written a short sentence which will appear in the Bulletin, the next Bulletin. It goes something like this (I don’t remember the words exactly now): If you say to the Divine with conviction, “I want only You”, the Divine will arrange all the circumstances in such a way as to compel you to be sincere.fn“If earnestly you say to the Divine, ‘I want only Thee’, the Divine will arrange the circumstances in such a way that you are compelled to be sincere.” Something in the being… “I want only You.”… the aspiration… and then one wants a hundred odd things all the time, isn’t that so? At times something comes, just… usually to disturb everything—it stands in the way and prevents you from realising your aspiration. Well, the Divine will come without showing 177Himself, without your seeing Him, without your having any inkling of it, and He will arrange all the circumstances in such a way that everything that prevents you from belonging solely to the Divine will be removed from your path, inevitably. Then when all is removed, you begin to howl and complain; but later, if you are sincere and look at yourself straight in the eye… you have said to the Lord, you have said, “I want only You.” He will remain close to you, all the rest will go away. This is indeed a higher Grace. Only, you must say this with conviction. I don’t even mean that you must say it integrally, because if one says it integrally, the work is done. What is necessary is that one part of the being, indeed the central will, says it with conviction: “I want only You.” Even once, and it suffices: all that takes more or less long, sometimes it stretches over years, but one reaches the goal.
But one has all kinds of imperfections!
Eh? The more the imperfections, the longer it takes; the more the attachments one has, the longer it takes.
but the goal is sure!
This talk is based upon Sri Aurobindo’s Elements of Yoga, Chapter 12,“Difficulties and Progress”.